Borg: EAGER CANDIDATES CROWD THE FIELD SEEKING THE 2004 DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATION. WE'LL QUESTION ONE OF THEM, FORMER VERMONT GOVERNOR HOWARD DEAN, ON THIS EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." FUNDING FOR THIS PROGRAM WAS PROVIDED BY "FRIENDS," THE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION FOUNDATION... GENERATIONS OF FAMILIES AND FRIENDS WHO FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT THE PROGRAMS THEY WATCH ON IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

AND BY THE IOWA BANKERS ASSOCIATION... FOR PERSONAL, BUSINESS, AND COMMERCIAL NEEDS, IOWA BANKS HELP IOWANS REACH THEIR FINANCIAL GOALS; AND BY THE ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS OF IOWA... THE PUBLIC'S PARTNER IN BUILDING IOWA'S HIGHWAY, BRIDGE, AND MUNICIPAL UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE.

ON STATEWIDE IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION, THIS IS THE FRIDAY, MARCH 7 EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS." HERE IS DEAN BORG.


Borg: NEXT JANUARY 19 OFFICIALLY BEGINS THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES SELECTION PROCESS. THAT'S THE DATE TENTATIVELY CIRCLED FOR IOWA'S FIRST-IN-THE-NATION PRESIDENTIAL PREFERENCE CAUCUSES, BUT SOME MIGHT TAKE ISSUE WITH THAT DATE AS THE OFFICIAL BEGINNING. SOME CANDIDATES ARE WELL ALONG WITH THEIR COURTSHIP OF IOWA'S POLITICAL ACTIVISTS RIGHT NOW, AND THAT COURTSHIP OF IOWANS INVOLVES 12 DEMOCRATIC SUITORS: SOME DECLARED CANDIDATES, SOME STILL DECIDING. FORMER VERMONT GOVERNOR HOWARD DEAN, THOUGH, WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TO DECLARE HIS CANDIDACY, AND HE'S COME CALLING A LOT IN IOWA, LOGGING MORE THAN 20 VISITS.

GOVERNOR DEAN, WELCOME TO IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION AND TO "IOWA PRESS."

Dean: THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.

Borg: AND ACROSS THE TABLE, I THINK TWO PEOPLE YOU RECOGNIZE FROM BEING OUT HERE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL: "DES MOINES REGISTER" POLITICAL COLUMNIST DAVID YEPSEN AND "KUNI" STATEHOUSE REPORTER JEANENE BECK.

Beck: GOVERNOR, LET'S START WITH A TOPIC THAT'S ON A LOT OF PEOPLE'S MINDS, AND THAT IS: WHAT SHOULD WE DO ABOUT IRAQ, AND IS SADDAM HUSSEIN AN IMMINENT THREAT?

Dean: I THINK SADDAM HUSSEIN IS NOT AN IMMINENT THREAT. HE DOES NOT POSSESS NUCLEAR WEAPONS. HE DOES NOT HAVE A CREDIBLE NUCLEAR PROGRAM, NOR IS THERE MUCH EVIDENCE THAT HE'S GIVING WEAPONS TO THE TERRORISTS. THOSE THINGS WOULD MAKE HIM AN IMMINENT THREAT. BUT I DISAGREE WITH THE FOLKS FROM WASHINGTON WHO I'M RUNNING AGAINST; I DON'T THINK WE OUGHT TO GIVE THE PRESIDENT UNILATERAL AUTHORITY TO GO TO WAR BECAUSE I DON'T THINK SADDAM IS AN IMMINENT THREAT. I THINK NORTH KOREA IS AN IMMINENT THREAT AND WE'RE NOT PAYING ENOUGH ATTENTION TO THAT. BUT IRAQ, I THINK THE SITUATION IS -- I THINK THIS IS THE WRONG WAR AT THE WRONG TIME.


Beck: IS THERE A TIME WHEN YOU WOULD USE FORCE AGAINST IRAQ?

Dean: YES. I THINK, FIRST OF ALL, IF IRAQ BECAME AN IMMINENT THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES, WE CLEARLY HAVE A RIGHT TO DEFEND OURSELVES. SECONDLY, I THINK THE UNITED NATIONS SHOULD DISARM SADDAM HUSSEIN. I THINK WE HAVE SOME TIME. I'D LIKE TO SEE --THE INSPECTIONS SEEM TO BE WORKING, BUT IF WE -- IF THE UNITED NATIONS DECIDED THEY HAD TO USE FORCE TO REMOVE SADDAM HUSSEIN'S ARMS, THEN I WOULD SUPPORT THAT.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, WHAT ARE YOUR DIFFERENCES WITH OTHER DEMOCRATS ON THE ISSUE OF IRAQ, THE OTHER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES?

Dean: THE PRINCIPAL DIFFERENCES I HAVE FOR MOST OF THEM --SOME OF THEM DID NOT SUPPORT THE RESOLUTION AND SO FORTH. BUT THE PRINCIPAL --THE FOUR MAJOR FOLKS THAT I AM CONTENDING AGAINST, AT LEAST UNTIL WE SEE WHO'S REALLY GOING TO RUN AND WHO ISN'T, HAVE ALL VOTED FOR THE RESOLUTION, WHICH I THINK WAS THE WRONG THING TO DO. LET ME JUST SAY AND BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THIS, THOUGH. I THINK THE REASON DEMOCRATS ARE IN TROUBLE IN THIS COUNTRY IS BECAUSE THEY KEEP SWITCHING THEIR POSITIONS AROUND AND APPEARING TO SAY WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO SAY TO WIN.

I'VE BEEN VERY CLEAR-CUT. JOE LIEBERMAN VOTED FOR THE RESOLUTION. HE IS A HAWK AND HE SUPPORTS THE RESOLUTION. HE'S BEEN CONSISTENT.THE PROBLEM I HAVE -- AND WE CAN HAVE A DISAGREEMENT ABOUT THAT. THE PROBLEM I HAVE IS FOLKS THAT ARE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT WHO TOLD THEIR FOLKS THEY DIDN'T THINK IT WAS A GOOD IDEA, WENT AND GAVE THE PRESIDENT UNILATERAL AUTHORITY, AND THEN COME TO IOWA AND PRETEND THEY DON'T LIKE THE WAR. WE CAN'T WIN THAT WAY. SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT IF YOU WANT TO, EXPLAIN TO US WHY YOU'RE SUPPORTING THE PRESIDENT, BUT DON'T SAY TWO DIFFERENT THINGS IN TWO DIFFERENT PLACES.


Borg: I INTRODUCED YOU SAYING YOU'RE THE FORMER GOVERNOR OF VERMONT, BUT I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING MORE THAN THAT. WHO IS THIS MAN, HOWARD DEAN, WHO WANTS THE DEMOCRATS TO NOMINATE HIM AS THEIR CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT?

Dean: WELL, I SUPPOSE THE MOST INTERESTING THING IS I'M A PHYSICIAN WHO GOT INTO POLITICS IN 1980 BECAUSE OF JIMMY CARTER. I THINK THAT HUMAN RIGHTS ARE REALLY A CRITICAL PART OF OUR DOMESTIC AND FOREIGN POLICY THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS ESSENTIALLY IGNORING. AND THAT'S WHAT JIMMY CARTER'S TRADEMARK WAS. I CAME UP THROUGH THE RANKS AS A STATE LEGISLATOR AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, PRACTICING MEDICINE ALL THE TIME, BECAUSE THOSE ARE PART-TIME JOBS IN VERMONT. AND THEN IN 1991 I BECAME GOVERNOR AND I STAYED UNTIL 2003. AND OF COURSE, I HAVEN'T PRACTICED MEDICINE SINCE I'VE BEEN GOVERNOR.

I'VE CHAIRED THE NATIONAL GOVERNORS ASSOCIATION, CHAIRED THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNORS ASSOCIATION, AND I WANT FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE, REAL CHANGE IN THIS COUNTRY.

Borg: IS THAT WHAT LURES YOU INTO THIS CANDIDACY?

Dean: YEAH, I THINK WE'RE IN DEEP TROUBLE IN THIS COUNTRY. WE HAVE A PRESIDENT THAT DOES NOT KNOW THE VALUE OF A DOLLAR. WE HAVE THE BIGGEST DEFICITS WE'VE HAD IN THE HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY. NO REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT HAS BALANCED THE BUDGET IN THIRTY-FOUR YEARS. WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET BETTER IF WE CONTINUE TO MODEL OUR FISCAL POLICIES AFTER ARGENTINA. IN TERMS OF FOREIGN POLICY, WE'VE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IRAQ.MY BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THAT WE TEND TO BE THE BULLY ON THE BLOCK, SOMETHING THE PRESIDENT PROMISED HE WOULDN'T DO WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE.YOU CAN'T, IF YOU'RE THE BIGGEST AND MOST POWERFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, EXPECT PEOPLE TO COOPERATE WITH YOU IF YOU PUSH THEM AROUND ALL THE TIME. THIS PRESIDENT BELIEVES THAT MIGHT MAKES RIGHT.

ABRAHAM LINCOLN, THE FOUNDER OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, SAID THAT RIGHT MAKES MIGHT, AND I THINK WE OUGHT TO GET BACK TO THOSE PRINCIPLES.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, DOESN'T THE --DON'T THE UNITED STATES HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO --AS THE WORLD'S SUPERPOWER, IT'S DIFFERENT THAN OTHER COUNTRIES. I MEAN YOU SAY WE'RE A BULLY BUT, ON THE OTHER HAND, DON'T CERTAIN MORAL RESPONSIBILITIES COME WITH THAT?

DOESN'T THE WORLD LOOK TO US TO TAKE CARE OF THUGS LIKE SADDAM HUSSEIN?

Dean: THERE ARE MANY THUGS LIKE SADDAM HUSSEIN. THERE IS A MECHANISM FOR TAKING CARE OF PEOPLE LIKE SADDAM HUSSEIN; IT'S CALLED THE UNITED NATIONS. THE CHRONOLOGY OF WHAT THIS CRISIS IS ABOUT IS THAT THE PRESIDENT ANNOUNCED IN JULY THAT WE ARE GOING TO GO IN.

IF ANYBODY ELSE DIDN'T LIKE IT, THAT WAS TOO BAD. HE WAS GRADUALLY BACKED PARTLY BY THE DEMOCRATS AND PARTLY BECAUSE THE PUBLIC AGREES WITH MY POSITION, I THINK, INTO GOING TO THE UNITED NATIONS. THEN HE NOW SAYS, WELL, I'M GOING TO COOPERATE WITH THE UNITED NATIONS IN THE WAR AS A LAST RESORT, AS HE CONTINUES HIS BELLICOSE RHETORIC AND CONTINUING THE BUILDUP. DAVID, THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS: IRAQ IS NOT A THREAT TO THE UNITED STATES. NORTH KOREA IS. WE'RE NOT EVEN TALKING TO NORTH KOREA UNDER THIS ADMINISTRATION, AND YET WE HAVE 200,000 TROOPS SURROUNDING IRAQ.

Beck: GOVERNOR, WHY SHOULD WE TAKE YOU AS AN AUTHORITY ON FOREIGN POLICY WHEN, SO FAR, THE HEIGHT OF YOUR CAREER HAS BEEN SERVING AS A GOVERNOR OF A SMALL STATE AND SOME OF THE CANDIDATES YOU'RE RUNNING AGAINST SERVE IN CONGRESS, WHO MIGHT BE PRIVY TO MORE INFORMATION ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY THAN YOU ARE?

Dean: WELL, THEY'RE NOT PRIVY TO MORE INFORMATION. I'VE BEEN TO OVER 50 COUNTRIES. I'VE LIVED ABROAD.I CERTAINLY -- PROBABLY, BY THE ELECTION, I STILL WILL HAVE BEEN IN MORE COUNTRIES THAN THE PRESIDENT. AND I DON'T TAKE A BACK SEAT TO ANYBODY IN TERMS OF FOREIGN POLICY. I GET MY INFORMATION FROM THE SAME PLACES THE FOLKS IN CONGRESS GET THEIR INFORMATION FROM. WE HAVE A WIDE ARRAY OF POLICY ADVISORS THAT I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH FOR A YEAR.

WE HAVE A SPEECH ON OUR WEB SITE, WHICH I GAVE HERE AT DRAKE UNIVERSITY A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO. AND I'D ENCOURAGE ANYBODY TO LOOK AT THE "DEAN FOR AMERICA" WEB SITE AND LOOK AT THAT SPEECH. IT IS NOT A SPEECH OF SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, YOU'VE BEEN CRITICAL OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION FOR NOT DOING ENOUGH ON THE WAR ON TERROR. DO YOU STILL FEEL THAT WAY IN LIGHT OF THE RECENT ARRESTS THAT WE'VE HAD?

Dean: I DO. I CONGRATULATE THE CIA AND THE PRESIDENT AND THE PAKISTANIS FOR HELPING US TO NAB THE NUMBER THREE GUY, AN AL QAEDA, AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE SHOULD POOH-POOH. THAT WAS A SIGNIFICANT AND IMPORTANT ACHIEVEMENT. BUT 2 PERCENT OF ALL THE CONTAINERS THAT COME INTO THE UNITED STATES ARE INSPECTED. THE PRESIDENT TURNED DOWN A $5-BILLION APPROPRIATION FOR STATES TO INCREASE FIRST RESPONDERS AND STATE POLICE AND HEALTH DEPARTMENTS,WHILE THEY'RE WILLING TO SPEND $670 BILLION CUTTING TAXES AGAIN.

WE'RE NOT PREPARED FOR ANOTHER EVENT LIKE THE WORLD TRADE CENTER HERE AT HOME, AND WE'RE NOT DOING ALL THE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD DO TO STOP THAT.

Yepsen: WHAT SHOULD WE DO?

Dean: WELL, WE SHOULD, FIRST OF ALL, INSPECT EVERY CONTAINER THAT COMES IN WITH INSPECTORS IN PLACES LIKE ROTERDAM, WHICH IS THE LARGEST, AS YOU KNOW, PORT IN THE WORLD. WE NEED TO BEEF UP LOCAL SECURITY, AND WE NEED TO BEEF UP FIRST RESPONSE. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE THING I WORRY ABOUT THE MOST, IS THE LACK OF COOPERATION BETWEEN THE FBI, THE CIA, AND LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT.

WE'VE SEEN THAT AGAIN AND AGAIN, AND THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE. LOCAL PEOPLE NEED TO HAVE THE BENEFIT OF THE INTELLIGENCE THAT THE FBI GETS, BECAUSE THEY'RE MOST LIKELY THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO APPREHEND THE TERRORISTS.

Borg: HOW WOULD YOU MAKE THE CHANGE QUICKLY? WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE? ISN'T HOMELAND SECURITY AND THE REORGANIZATION DOING ENOUGH?

Dean: IT'S NOT GOING PARTICULARLY FAST. I DON'T CRITICIZE THE PRESIDENT FOR THE HOMELAND SECURITY BILL. I WOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT THAT WAY, BECAUSE MY EXPERIENCE AS GOVERNOR IS WHEN YOU HAVE AGENCIES THAT DON'T GET ALONG, YOU CAN PUT THEM IN TOGETHER BUT THEY STILL HAVE THEIR TURF BATTLES.

WHAT WE DID IN SITUATIONS LIKE THAT IS BRING THE RESPONSIBILITY INTO WHAT THE EQUIVALENT OF THE WHITE HOUSE WOULD BE, THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, AND THEN FORCE THEM TO WORK TOGETHER OR ELSE LEAVE. SO MY APPROACH REALLY IS TO CHANGE LEADERSHIP IN THOSE ORGANIZATIONS IF THEY CAN'T WORK TOGETHER AND IF THEY WON'T WORK TOGETHER, AND I THINK THAT PROBABLY HAS TO HAPPEN PROBABLY IN THE FBI.

Beck: GOVERNOR, DESPITE YOUR VIEWS ON IRAQ, IT'S QUITE POSSIBLE THAT IF YOU BECOME THE NEXT PRESIDENT, YOU'LL EITHER INHERIT A WAR OR A POST-WAR CLIMATE. WHAT DO YOU DO THEN IN THE MIDDLE EAST?

Dean: WELL, LET'S JUST SUPPOSE --I THINK IF WE DO GO INTO IRAQ, IT WILL BE A FAIRLY QUICK INTERVENTION. AND I SUSPECT THAT I'LL INHERIT A POST-WAR IRAQ. WE OUGHT TO, AS A MATTER OF COURSE IN OUR FOREIGN POLICY, DO JUST WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID HE WASN'T GOING TO DO DURING THE CAMPAIGN: WE OUGHT TO BE BUILDING OTHER NATIONS.

THE MARSHALL PLAN IS, IN MY VIEW, THE MOST EFFECTIVE DEFENSE INITIATIVE THIS COUNTRY HAS EVER HAD, BECAUSE WE HAVE DEVELOPED A STABLE ECONOMIC UNION, OR HELPED DEVELOP, ON A CONTINENT WHICH IS THE MOST VIOLENT CONTINENT ON EARTH FOR NEARLY A THOUSAND YEARS. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO IN OTHER COUNTRIES.

WE NEED TO BUILD DEMOCRATIC NATIONS WITH MIDDLE-CLASS ECONOMIES WHERE WOMEN FULLY PARTICIPATE IN THE EDUCATIONAL -- EXCUSE ME, IN THE ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL DECISION-MAKING. THOSE COUNTRIES DON'T GO TO WAR WITH EACH OTHER, AND THEY DON'T WILLINGLY AND KNOWINGLY HARBOR GROUPS LIKE AL QAEDA. WE ALSO NEED TO CHANGE THIS COUNTRY'S OIL POLICY.

WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANY OF THIS? THE PRESIDENT IS UNABLE TO GO TO THE SAUDIS WHO ARE FUNDING TERRORISM, WHO ARE FUNDING, MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE TEACHING OF SMALL CHILDREN IN THE ISLAMIC WORLD TO HATE AMERICANS, CHRISTIANS, AND JEWS. THERE ARE OVER ONE MILLION PEOPLE IN PAKISTAN BEING TAUGHT IN THESE FUNDAMENTAL ISLAMIC SCHOOLS, THE MADRASAS, TO HATE AMERICANS, CHRISTIANS, AND JEWS AS PART OF THEIR LIFE. THE SAUDIS ARE FUNDING A LOT OF THAT WITH OUR OIL MONEY. THIS PRESIDENT HAS NO OIL POLICY OTHER THAN DRILLING THE NATIONAL PARKS. WE'VE GOT TO DO BETTER THAN THAT.

Beck: YOU SAY IT'S FORCING HIM TO TAKE A DOUBLE STANDARD WITH CERTAIN COUNTRIES.

Dean: WELL, THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE I THINK THE PRESIDENT IS WEAK ON IN TERMS OF SECURITY. IMAGINE ALLOWING 15 SCUD MISSILES INTO YEMEN. THESE WERE SEIZED IN AN UNREGISTERED SHIP, UNFLAGGED, COMING FROM NORTH KOREA TO YEMEN.

HAVE WE LEARNED NOTHING? WE SUPPLIED THE AFGHANS AND THE IRAQIS WITH ARMS IN THE '80S AND THE '90S, AND NOW THOSE COUNTRIES ARE OUR ENEMIES. SO HERE, BECAUSE YEMEN IS COOPERATING WITH US FOR THE TIME BEING ON TERRORISM, WE ALLOW WEAPONS INTO A COUNTRY THAT'S AN UNSTABLE DICTATORSHIP. BUT THESE KINDS OF THINGS ARE INCONSISTENT WITH THE NOTION THAT WE'RE GOING TO PROTECT THIS COUNTRY AGAINST TERRORISM.

Borg: YOU SAID YOU WANTED TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THE MARSHALL PLAN AGAIN. THAT WAS FOOD AND OTHER TYPES OF SUPPLIES. YOU SEEMED ALSO TO HAVE A SOCIAL AGENDA IN WHICH YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT.

Dean:I DO AND I THINK THE PRESIDENT HAS THAT AGENDA BUT ISN'T CARRYING IT OUT. IN AFGHANISTAN, FOR EXAMPLE, I COMMEND THE PRESIDENT'S -- THE PRESIDENT'S CONDUCT IN AFGHANISTAN. WE'VE REMOVED A TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT, WHICH IS TEACHING HATE. WE'VE PUT INTO PLACE AN AFGHAN INSTITUTION, WHICH IS DEMOCRATIC BY AFGHAN STANDARDS. THE PROBLEM IS, THOUGH, THAT HE REFUSES TO POLICE THE PERIPHERIES AND HE ALLOWS THE WARLORDS TO RUN THE PERIPHERY OF THE COUNTRY. THAT'S A MISTAKE.

Borg: MY POINT IS IT'S EASY TO GIVE FOOD; IT'S HARD TO CHANGE RELIGION AND OTHER THINGS --

Dean: WELL, I'M NOT ASKING ANYBODY TO CHANGE THEIR RELIGION.I THINK THAT'S UNREASONABLE. BUT I THINK WE CAN BEGIN THE PROCESS OF ENCOURAGING DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS AS WE DID IN JAPAN AFTER WORLD WAR II.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, WHAT -- WHAT WOULD YOU DO ABOUT NORTH KOREA?

Dean: FIRST I'D START TALKING TO THEM. THE PRESIDENT --THIS IS A FULL-BLOWN CRISIS. YESTERDAY THE PRESIDENT IN HIS SPEECH SAID IT WAS A REGIONAL MATTER.IT IS NOT A REGIONAL MATTER. NORTH KOREA HAS TESTED MISSILES ON THE GROUND WHICH COULD REACH THE WEST COAST OF THE UNITED STATES. IF THEY'RE SUCCESSFUL IN DEVELOPING BOTH NUCLEAR ARMS, WHICH THEY ARE VERY CLOSE TO DOING IF THEY HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE IT, AND THEN BEING ABLE TO REACH THE UNITED STATES WITH IT, THIS IS A FULL-BLOWN INTERNATIONAL CRISIS, WHICH THE PRESIDENT IS ESSENTIALLY SWEEPING UNDER THE RUG.

I'D START BY BILATERAL --OPENING BILATERAL TALKS. THERE'S NOTHING THE MATTER WITH DOING THAT. SECONDLY, I WANT TO GIVE THEM A LETTER SAYING --A PUBLIC LETTER SAYING WE WILL NOT ATTACK YOU MILITARILY AS LONG AS YOU NOW STOP YOUR PROGRAM. WE AGREE BOTH TO FREEZE OUR POSITIONS UNTIL WE CAN NEGOTIATE A POSITION WHICH IS GOING TO WORK FOR US, WHICH IS THE TOTAL DISARMAMENT, IN TERMS OF NUCLEAR TERMS,OF THE KOREAN PENINSULA,IN RETURN FOR ENERGY AND FOOD HELP FOR THAT POPULATION AND PROBABLY RECOGNITION AS WELL.

Yepsen: HAVEN'T WE ACCEPTED THE FACT THAT NORTH KOREA IS A NUCLEAR POWER?

Dean: IF WE HAVE,THAT'S A DREADFUL MISTAKE. I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THIS CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT WILL BE THE PRESIDENT WHO WILL, QUOTE/UNQUOTE, LOSE NORTH KOREA AND ALLOW IT TO BE A NUCLEAR POWER.THEY CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO BE A NUCLEAR POWER.

Yepsen: DO YOU EVER THINK THAT THE UNITED STATES MAY HAVE TO GO TO WAR WITH NORTH KOREA?

Dean: I WORRY ABOUT THAT A GREAT DEAL. AND I THINK THE LONGER THIS GOES WITHOUT THE PRESIDENT PAYING ATTENTION, THE MORE LIKELY A WAR BETWEEN NORTH KOREA AND THE UNITED STATES IS.

Borg: WOULD YOU SUGGEST A MILITARY BUILDUP IN THAT AREA TO PROVIDE MORE LEVERAGE SUCH AS WE HAVE --

Dean: NO, I WOULDN'T. I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE PRESIDENT HAS DONE WRONG IN IRAQ. WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS THAT WE OPEN BILATERAL NEGOTIATIONS WITH NORTH KOREA ON THE CONDITION THAT THEY FREEZE THEIR NUCLEAR PROGRAM IMMEDIATELY.

Borg: WE'RE GOING TO SWITCH TO THE ECONOMY. HIGH ENERGY PRICES AND THE THREAT OF WAR ARE ADDING A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY TO AN ALREADY STRUGGLING ECONOMY. WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE? IF YOU WERE PRESIDENT, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Dean: YOU'RE GOING TO THINK I'M PANDERING. THERE'S TWO THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DONE IMMEDIATELY. FIRST OF ALL, ALTERNATIVE ENERGY IS VERY IMPORTANT, WIND AND SOLAR AND SO FORTH. BUT THE TWO THINGS WE OUGHT TO DO IMMEDIATELY IS, IF YOU HAD 10-PERCENT ETHANOL IN EVERYBODY'S GAS TANK IN THIS COUNTRY, YOU WOULD REDUCE OIL USE BY 5 PERCENT. THAT'S AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT. IF YOU APPLIED SUV MILEAGE STANDARDS, THE SAME AS THE REST OF THE FLEET, YOU WOULD SAVE THE ENTIRE AMOUNT OF OIL IN A SINGLE YEAR THAT IS PURPORTED TO BE IN THE ARCTIC NATIONAL WILDLIFE REFUGE.

CONSERVATION MATTERS BECAUSE IT CHANGES OUR RELATIONSHIPS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND ALLOWS US TO DEFEND OURSELVES AND OBVIOUSLY REDUCES THE PRICE OF OIL, WHICH IS A HUGE DRAG ON THE ECONOMY.

Borg: THOSE ARE LONG-RANGE THINGS.

Dean: NO, THEY'RE SHORT-RANGE THINGS. CERTAINLY SUV MILEAGE STANDARDS COULD BE PUT IN NEXT YEAR. NEXT YEAR THERE ARE THREE COMPANIES -- FORD, LEXUS, AND TOYOTA -- THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE HYBRIDS IN THEIR SUVs THAT WILL MEET MILEAGE STANDARDS AND EXCEED THEM. SO YOU COULD EASILY DO THIS IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

Beck: GOVERNOR, WE WANT TO MOVE ON TO A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT TOPICS JUST TO HIT BEFORE THE SHOW RUNS OUT OF TIME. HEALTH CARE... WHAT CAN YOU DO TO SOLVE SOME OF THE NATION'S HEALTH CARE PROBLEMS?

Dean: WELL, I'M ACTUALLY THE ONLY PERSON THAT'S EVER ACTUALLY PUT IN A HEALTH CARE PROGRAM, SINCE I'M THE ONLY GOVERNOR THAT'S RUNNING. ALTHOUGH IF BOB GRAHAM GETS IN THE RACE, HE WILL BE ANOTHER FORMER GOVERNOR BUT HAS NOT DONE MUCH WITH HEALTH CARE. I WANT HEALTH CARE FOR EVERYBODY. EVERYBODY IN OUR STATE HAS HEALTH CARE IF THEY'RE UNDER 18, ESSENTIALLY, BECAUSE WE MADE MEDICAID INTO A MIDDLE-CLASS ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM. AND IT'S A VERY, VERY POPULAR PROGRAM AMONG THE ENTIRE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

I WANT TO DO THAT IN THE UNITED STATES AS A WHOLE. I BELIEVE THE PRESIDENT'S TAX CUTS HAVE HURT THE ECONOMY, NOT HELPED THEM. I THINK WE OUGHT TO GET RID OF THE PRESIDENT'S TAX CUTS FOR THOSE WHO MAKE MORE THAN $300,000, WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS, AND USE SOME OF THAT MONEY TO HELP BALANCE THE BUDGET, WHICH I CARE VERY DEEPLY ABOUT, AND TO PROVIDE HEALTH INSURANCE FOR EVERY MAN, WOMAN, AND CHILD.

WE CAN DO IT WITHOUT A BIG GOVERNMENT PROGRAM. I'VE OUTLINED IT MANY TIMES. YOU CAN GO TO THE WEB SITE AND SEE THAT. WE CAN DO THAT USING THE EXISTING SYSTEM THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE COMFORTABLE WITH.

Beck: HOW MUCH WILL THAT COST?

Dean: IT WILL COST ABOUT HALF OF WHAT THE PRESIDENT'S TAX CUT WAS.


Yepsen: ALL RIGHT, GOVERNOR, YOU'VE MENTIONED YOUR WEB SITE TWICE. DO YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD AND GIVE US THE SITE? [ LAUGHTER ]

Dean: SURE, WWW.DEANFORAMERICA.COM.

Yepsen: I KNEW YOU'D GET THAT IN THERE.

Dean: THANK YOU FOR THE OPENING. I APPRECIATE IT.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR THE -- THE CAUCUS FIGHT -- YOU'RE HERE BECAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, YOU WANT DEMOCRATS TO NOMINATE YOU. A CAUCUS FIGHT IS ALWAYS ABOUT PICKING A CANDIDATE. WHY ARE YOU THE MOST ELECTABLE DEMOCRATIC THAT IS RUNNING? WHY SHOULD A CAUCUS-GOER LOOK AT YOU AS THE GUY WHO CAN GET 270 ELECTORAL VOTES?

Dean: WELL, I BORROWED A QUOTE FROM PAUL WELLSTONE, ALTHOUGH I ACTUALLY THOUGHT IT WAS FROM A CALIFORNIA SENATOR WHO TOLD IT TO ME FIRST, WHICH SAYS THAT I'M HERE TO REPRESENT THE DEMOCRATIC WING AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. I THINK WE CAN'T WIN IF WE APPEAR TO BE WILLING TO SAY WHATEVER WE HAVE TO SAY TO WIN.

AS A GOVERNOR, I HAVE A VISION AND A PROGRAM THAT I'VE MOSTLY IMPLEMENTED: BALANCED BUDGETS; HEALTH CARE; AN EDUCATION SYSTEM -- THAT'S ANOTHER HUGE CONTENTION. ALL THE GUYS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT FROM WASHINGTON VOTED FOR WHAT I CALL THE "NO SCHOOL BOARD LEFT STANDING BILL." IT'S A HUGE UNFUNDED MANDATE. IT'S GOING TO REALLY HURT IOWA SCHOOLS, NOT TO MENTION VERMONT'S AND NEW HAMPSHIRE'S AND OTHER STATES.

THESE THINGS MAKE A DIFFERENCE. IF YOU WANT TO HELP EDUCATION, YOU FULLY FUND SPECIAL EDUCATION. THE ECONOMY, JOBS, WE NEED TO FOCUS ON SMALL BUSINESSES. ALL OF US HAVE FOCUSED ON LARGE BUSINESSES BECAUSE THEY'RE EASIER TO DEAL WITH. SMALL BUSINESSES DON'T MOVE THEIR JOBS TO MEXICO AND CHINA. AND THEY DO CREATE -- AND THEY CREATE MORE JOBS THAN LARGE BUSINESSES. I HAVE A VISION FOR THE COUNTRY AND A MESSAGE FOR THE COUNTRY. I THINK MESSAGE TRUMPS MONEY AND THAT'S WHY I THINK I CAN WIN IN IOWA.

Yepsen: BUT DOES IT TRUMP ELECTORAL VOTES? WHY WOULDN'T YOUR PARTY BE BETTER OFF NOMINATING A CANDIDATE FROM THE SOUTH, NOMINATING A CANDIDATE FROM MISSOURI, A SWING STATE? VERMONT IS A PRETTY TINY STATE.

Dean: IT'S A TINY STATE BUT MESSAGE MATTERS. I'M MORE CONSERVATIVE ABOUT GUNS THAN MOST OF THE OTHER FOLKS. WE LOST MONTANA, COLORADO, WEST VIRGINIA LAST TIME BECAUSE WE WERE -- BECAUSE AL GORE WANTED A NATIONAL GUN REGISTRATION POLICY. I'M NOT A SECOND AMENDMENT GUN PERSON, BUT I THINK WE OUGHT TO ENFORCE THE FEDERAL LAWS THAT WE HAVE AND THEN EACH STATE OUGHT TO MAKE THEIR OWN GUN LAWS.

THAT MATTERS TO PEOPLE AND THAT MAKES ME A VIABLE CANDIDATE IN THE WEST. HEALTH INSURANCE IS AN ENORMOUS ISSUE. I GO TO THE SOUTH AND I SAY, LOOK, I WANT TO TALK TO WHITE PEOPLE WHO DRIVE PICKUP TRUCKS WITH CONFEDERATE FLAG DECALS ON THE BACK WINDOW, BECAUSE YOU OUGHT TO BE VOTING WITH US BECAUSE YOUR KIDS DON'T HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE EITHER. THAT IS A POPULOUS ECONOMIC MESSAGE THAT MAKES SENSE TO PEOPLE.

BALANCING THE BUDGET...THERE ARE A LOT OF CONSERVATIVE PEOPLE ABOUT MONEY. I AM THE ONLY PERSON IN THIS RACE ON EITHER SIDE THAT'S EVER BALANCED A BUDGET, BECAUSE PRESIDENT BUSH, WHEN HE WAS IN TEXAS --HE CERTAINLY HASN'T BALANCED THE BUDGET AS PRESIDENT. WHEN HE WAS IN TEXAS --THE TEXAS GOVERNORSHIP IS THE WEAKEST ONE IN THE COUNTRY; THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR ACTUALLY RUNS THE BUDGET. I THINK MOST AMERICANS CARE ABOUT BALANCED BUDGETS AND THEY WANT THIS ECONOMY TO COME BACK. AND THIS ECONOMY WILL NOT COME BACK UNLESS WE START GETTING SERIOUS ABOUT BALANCING THE BUDGET.

Beck: GOVERNOR, ANY CAUCUS RUN IN IOWA WILL INCLUDE STOPS AT FARMS OVER THE SUMMER. WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT AGRICULTURE?

Dean: A LOT. WE'RE A BIG DAIRY STATE. I SPEND A LOT OF TIME OUT HERE IN THE SUMMER TALKING ABOUT SOYBEANS AND CORN AND THE THINGS THAT MATTER, AND HOGS, AND THE THINGS THAT MATTER IN IOWA. I'VE GOT AN -- I'VE GOT AN AGRICULTURAL PLAN THAT I THINK WILL WORK. IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH WHAT WE DID IN VERMONT IN TERMS OF THE DAIRY COMPACT.

I WANT TO EXPAND THAT TO COVER CLASS TWO AND THREE -- I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO BORING WITH YOU WITH AGRICULTURE --AND I WANT TO SEE IF WE CAN ADOPT THE DAIRY COMPACT TO COVER OTHER COMMODITIES SO FARMERS CAN GET A FAIR PRICE FOR THEIR MILK OFF THE TAXPAYERS' ROLLS BECAUSE THE MONEY COMES DIRECTLY FROM THE CONSUMER.

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, YOU MENTIONED ONE OF THE SOCIAL ISSUES IN THIS CAMPAIGN, THE GUN ISSUE. BUT YOU'VE ALSO GOT A CONTROVERSIAL STANCE ON GAY RIGHTS. HOW DO YOU -- TELL ME YOUR POSITION ON CIVIL UNIONS AND GAY MARRIAGES. AND THEN, SECONDLY, HOW IS THAT POSITION GOING TO SELL WITH THE GUY WHO DRIVES A PICKUP TRUCK AND HAS A GUN RACK IN THE BACK OF --

Dean: GREAT QUESTION.

Yepsen: -- AND A CONFEDERATE FLAG? YOUR LAW SAYS THAT MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN, BUT ANY SAME-SEX COUPLE CAN ENTER INTO A CIVIL UNION AND HAVE ALL THE SAME LEGAL RIGHTS AS MARRIED PEOPLE.

THAT IS -- VERMONT IS NOW THE ONLY STATE IN THE COUNTRY WHERE A GAY OR A LESBIAN PERSON IN A RELATIONSHIP CAN HAVE THE SAME PRIVILEGES I DO TO VISIT THEIR SIGNIFICANT OTHER IN THE HOSPITAL, INHERITANCE RIGHTS, INSURANCE RIGHTS. VERMONT IS THE ONLY PLACE IN THE COUNTRY WHERE THERE'S EQUAL RIGHTS UNDER THE LAW FOR ALL AMERICANS.

I THINK MOST PEOPLE BELIEVE IN EQUAL RIGHTS UNDER THE LAW FOR ALL AMERICANS. AND SO WHEN YOU ASK ME HOW IS MY STANCE ON EQUAL RIGHTS UNDER THE LAW GOING TO SELL TO PEOPLE WHO DRIVE AROUND WITH GUN RACKS IN THE BACK OF THEIR PICKUP, I THINK IT SELLS FINE BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT IN DANGER AND DON'T FEEL IN DANGER BECAUSE SOMEBODY ELSE HAS THE SAME RIGHTS THEY DO.

THE CANDIDACY IS BASED ON THE NOTION OF FAIRNESS, AND FAIRNESS JUST DOESN'T INCLUDE EQUAL RIGHTS FOR GAY AND LESBIAN PEOPLE; IT ALSO INCLUDES HEALTH INSURANCE AND EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES AND TURNING AROUND AN ECONOMY AND HELP FOR SMALL BUSINESS. I THINK THAT'S A PACKAGE THAT SELLS.

Yepsen: BACK ON GUNS, DON'T MOST CAUCUS-GOING DEMOCRATS, MOST DEMOCRATIC ACTIVISTS WANT TO SEE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TAKE A GREATER ROLE IN GUN CONTROL?

Dean: THEY MAY. AND, YOU KNOW, THE HALLMARK OF MY CANDIDACY IS "WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET." YOU ARE NOT GOING TO FIND ME TRYING TO BE ON ALL SIDES OF EVERY ISSUE. I'M UNABASHEDLY SAYING WHAT I JUST SAID TO YOU.

MY POSITION ON GUNS IS THAT THE STATES OUGHT TO MAKE THEIR OWN GUN CONTROL LAWS, OTHER THAN WE OUGHT TO HAVE THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN, THE BRADY BILL, AND CLOSE THE LOOPHOLE. BUT BESIDES THAT --NOW, THERE ARE GOING TO BE SOME LIBERALS THAT DON'T LIKE THAT IN THE CAUCUSES, BUT IT ENABLES ME TO WIN IN PLACES LIKE MONTANA AND COLORADO AND WEST VIRGINIA WHERE BILL CLINTON WON AND AL GORE LOST. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HAVING THE DEMOCRATS WIN THE PRESIDENCY OR NOT.

Beck: YOU MENTIONED EARLIER YOUR ENERGY IDEAS, BUT LET'S TALK MORE ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS CRITICIZED ON EARLY, BUT THAT'S SORT OF FALLEN BY THE WAYSIDE NOW THAT WE TALK ABOUT WAR. DO YOU DIFFER WITH ANY OF YOUR OPPONENTS ON THE ENVIRONMENT AND WHAT YOU WOULD DO TO PROTECT IT?

Dean: YOU MEAN MY DEMOCRATIC OPPONENTS?

Beck: YES.

Dean: YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY, BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN SUCH FOCUS ON IRAQ, THAT HASN'T REALLY BEEN DEBATED. I SUSPECT -- I'M NOT SURE BUT I SUSPECT ALL OF MY OPPONENTS ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE HAVE PRETTY GOOD ENVIRONMENTAL RECORDS. I CAN TELL YOU WHAT I'D DO. I CAN'T TELL YOU WHERE WE DIFFER. I'D ENFORCE THE CLEAN AIR ACT.

THIS PRESIDENT IS CALLING IT THE CLEAR SKIES SO WE CAN PUT MORE POLLUTION IN INTO THE AIR. THAT'S RIDICULOUS. I'D CHANGE OUR OIL POLICY DRAMATICALLY SO THAT WE WOULD BE DOING RENEWABLE ENERGY AND OIL CONSERVATION. I'D ENFORCE THE CLEAN WATER ACT. SO IN OUR STATES IN THE NORTHEAST, THE FATHER WHO TAKES THEIR KIDS FISHING ON A SATURDAY OR SUNDAY, CAN'T BRING HOME THE FISH AND COOK IT BECAUSE YOUR SMALL KIDS CAN'T EAT THE FISH BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH MERCURY POLLUTION THAT'S COME FROM POWER PLANTS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN REGULATED THIRTY YEARS AGO.

THESE ARE ALL THINGS -- JUST BASIC THINGS THAT WE OUGHT TO BE DOING. WHEN I WAS GOVERNOR, WE CONSERVED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ACRES USING COALITIONS OF GROUPS LIKE HUNTERS TO DO THAT. AND THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS WE OUGHT TO BE DOING.

Borg: QUICK QUESTION, DAVID?

Yepsen: GOVERNOR, WE'VE GOT ABOUT FIFTEEN SECOND LEFT. GIVE ME YOUR BEST SOUND BITE. WHAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU WANT A CAUCUS-GOER TO REMEMBER ABOUT YOU AS THEY HEAD OUT ON A JANUARY CAUCUS NIGHT?

Dean: WE NEED A COUNTRY THAT'S GOING TO TREAT PEOPLE FAIRLY AGAIN, THAT'S GOING TO RESPECT PEOPLE FOR WHO THEY ARE, AND WE NEED A COUNTRY THAT'S A COMMUNITY AGAIN, WHERE WE'RE ALL LINKED TO EACH OTHER AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT HAPPENS TO ONE OF US HAPPENS TO ALL OF US.

Borg: AS TIME GOES ALONG, ARE YOU GOING TO DIVIDE MORE TIME IN NEW HAMPSHIRE AND SEEING LESS IN IOWA?

Dean: NO. IOWA IS -- WE EXPECT TO DO WELL IN NEW HAMPSHIRE AND SOUTH CAROLINA. WE HAVE TEAMS ON THE GROUND, BUT IOWA IS FIRST AND IOWA WILL REMAIN FIRST AND WE NEED TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME HERE.

Borg: THANK YOU FOR BEING OUR GUEST TODAY.

Dean: THANK YOU.

Borg: ON OUR NEXT EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS," WITH THE 2003 IOWA LEGISLATIVE SESSION NOW AT THE MIDWAY POINT, WE'LL CHECK PROGRESS WITH TWO LEADERS OF THE IOWA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: REPUBLICAN MAJORITY LEADER CHUCK GIPP OF DECORAH; AND RICHARD MYERS OF IOWA CITY, WHO LEADS THE MINORITY DEMOCRATS.

THAT'S 6:30 NEXT FRIDAY. WELL, YOU'VE UNDOUBTEDLY NOTICED BY NOW THAT THIS IS FESTIVAL TIME HERE AT IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION, WITH SPECIAL PROGRAMMING. AND WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR LOYALTY AND GENEROSITY IN SUPPORTING LOCALLY PRODUCED PROGRAMS SUCH AS "IOWA PRESS." WE ABSOLUTELY DEPEND ON YOU AND WE HOPE THAT YOU FIND US EQUALLY FAITHFUL IN DELIVERING QUALITY PROGRAMMING THAT REWARDS THAT COMMITMENT. ON BEHALF OF ALL OF US ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR WEEKLY EDITION OF "IOWA PRESS," WE URGE YOU TO GET INVOLVED AS A "FRIEND" OF IOWA PUBLIC TELEVISION WITH A CALL RIGHT NOW. THANK YOU. I'M DEAN BORG. THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY.

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